Breaking: ICAP Notice Was not Aimed for ACCA and CIMA
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Moliere once said, “A wise man is superior to any insults which can be put upon him, and the best reply to unseemly behavior is patience and moderation”.
Unfortunately, when Accountancy profession need such wisdom and patience the most, there wasn’t any. Not even a hint of it.
According to reputed and highly placed industry professionals, who talked with EconomyAge on condition on anonymity and who are also close with ICAP council, the controversial notice was not intended for ACCA or CIMA but rather it was intended for ICAEW.
Majority of uninformed ACCA students turned a simple notice into an #AccountancyGate Scandal. Our team contacted with all stakeholders officially but due to the sensitivity of issue, none of them were willing to comment. But highly placed professionals close to these officials told us the ‘Real Story’. But before I continue to the real story behind the scenes let me tell you how all this started?
Scene-1# ICAP Issued Notice to Practicing members
On 4th of July, Institute of Chartered Accountants of Pakistan issued a notice to all practicing audit firms registered with it. They were simply reminded to comply with Section 22 of a relevant ordinance which states that firms cannot hire trainees of foreign qualifications on contract basis.
Scene-2# Someone Leaked the Notice on Social Media
Someone inside the firms, may be ICAP or ACCA trainees, who apparently misinterpreted this letter initially, and who found no other way for clear answers, put a copy of this notice on social media after which it was copied and shared over and over again.
On the night of 6th of July and for whole of 7th of July – this letter was discussed in such great numbers that it created top three trending topics on Twitter and numerous students start sending letters to ACCA offices.
The results were a disaster. ACCA students started sending tweets to politicians and other govt figures on Twitter – asking them to take notice, without helping to understand that Govt of Pakistan delegated the authority of law making to ICAP.
Then there was comments and recommendations that ACCA and ICAEW should file a law suit against ICAP and ban their members from working outside Pakistan. The same people who were initially cursing ICAP that they are ruining Pakistani students by banning ACCA students from training firms started saying that ICAP members should be banned similarly in other countries.
By the end of Sunday, there was an Event created on facebook asking ACCA students to protest on 12th of July in front of ICAP office in Islamabad. This event has already attracted over 200 people who expressed their willingness to gather.
Scene-3# Officials from ICAP, ACCA, CIMA and ICAEW decided not to Comment
When contacted ICAP, ACCA, CIMA and ICAEW officials, decided not to comment immediately which caused panic to prevail further.
Even on promise of commenting and issuing their official response till Monday – none of them issued any official version except CIMA Pakistan.
ICAP company secretary who’s sign was on this notice was on vacation, our team was told when contacted. Another official confirmed us that the letter is legitimate and its not fake but when we asked them the intention of this letter and who are these firms – he asked us to leave an email which he promised to respond but even till the filing of this article, there was no response from him.
We kept on calling ACCA officials but none of them were willing to respond to any questions or queries related to this ICAP notice. We also tried to contact ACCA newly elected council members but they also refused to comment much adding that its not possible for them to comment at the moment.
“The sensitivity of matter was so serious that ACCA UK office sent an email on Saturday, despite that ACCA offices are closed on weekends, to all ACCA council members and officials not to comment anything on this matter with media”, reliable sources close to ACCA office told us on condition of anonymity.
ICAEW official did not respond to our email and their local representative who were initially troubled on this notice also decided not to respond to any queries.
Although what we must appreciate is CIMA Pakistan’s role in this that, as promised earlier, responded to our query. It’s worth mentioning here that out of CIMA Pakistan’s 25 approved employers, 40% of them are audit firms.
“Since the letter hasn’t been issued to CIMA directly we are not in a position to comment directly on it”, told us Javaria Hassan, Country Representative of CIMA in Pakistan.
“It should also be noted that CIMA qualification is not a purely financial qualification and we do not accept audit experience for CIMA membership completely. CIMA Qualified professionals work in industry and not in the field of audit due to nature of qualification itself”, she added clearing any doubts their students might have.
What Inside Discussions Revealed
On Monday Morning, a report appeared on PakistanACCA, a popular private accountancy blog, which quoted principle of a renowned Accountancy tuition provider Mr. Adnan Rashid who believed that the ‘foreign qualification’ aimed in this letter wasn’t ACCA but it was ICAEW. His claim was later confirmed to EconomyAge by many senior industry professionals, including a senior partner of a renowned firm that wished not to be named for this article.
“The real problem begins when students start appearing in audit firms and start asking them to sign them for an ICAEW contract. Initially they were allowed but when a significant number of inputs were reported – ICAP council decided to issue a reminding notice to practicing firms before this can create a problem after 2 to 3 years”, the senior partner who’s also close to both ICAP and ACCA commented.
EconomyAge also asked him as why ICAP notice did not point their name and used the word ‘foreign accountancy qualifications’ if the real intention was ICAEW and also if ICAP has the right and authority to do it?
“See neither it is possible nor it would be an intelligent decision to point out any qualification. And yes, ICAP has all the rights and authority to enforce this decision. Many students failed to appreciate that ICAP is a regulating body of Accountancy qualification in Pakistan and their decisions cannot be challenged”, he said.
ACCA won’t Comment on this Notice
We also asked him if ACCA is going to seek clarification or comment after thousands of students are demanding them to act.
“I don’t think ACCA office would comment on this notice. In fact – I think the intelligent response for them is to stay low on this. For one thing, this was not a public notice and was communicated to practicing firms not to ACCA so there’s no point for them to respond. It would rather be foolish. And second its not ACCA’s policy to intervene with local regulating body of accountancy profession in countries where they are operating”, he said.
Bottom-Line
This letter, as many industry professionals are saying, was not intended for ACCA or CIMA. These industry professionals also believes that none of the professional body will issue any public stance on this as who was the real target of this notice.
Neither its possible for ICAP to publicly claim that it was ICAEW nor it is possible for ACCA to comment anything at all. Students related to profession should get over it and for the sake of their organizations’ reputation, stop putting allegation on each others’ bodies.
Similar Posts:
- ICAP Decided to take a Stand on its Notice: Sources
- CCP Soon to Pass Final Order in ACCA-ICAP Case
- Final Nail in Coffin: ICAP Refrain all Audit Firms in Pakistan to Employ Students of Foreign Accountancy Qualifications
- Breaking: Competition Commission Seek Clarification from ICAP, ACCA and ICAEW
- Lahore High Court Gives Stay Order to ICAP
Chalo Agli baari ACCA ki lag jaay gi
D
I think ACCA ki lag gai, Ali Ahmad is not aware of the ground reality. Each and every firm ( Big 4 Firm ) are claiming that this notice is for both ACCA and ICAEW. Adnan Rashid is not a appropiate person to clarrify this notice because he is already running a College therefore his views will be biased and ACCA should seek clarification from ICAP otherwise this will be big mass for ACCA students completing their professional studies.
It is clearly mentioned in the notice that any foreign qualification student is not allowed, it have not mentioned ICAEW so it is applicable to all the foreign qualifications. If for thé applicability on ACCA anyone I believe could say anything, he is Arif Mirza president of ACCA. Moreover, I am in total agreement with Ahmed
Wese CA wale ACCA k students se jelous hote hen yehi hal ICAP body ka hay…..ICAP k notice se unki tangnazri or ta-asubi saf zahir hogai……Cheep people Cheap thinking…….shame on ICAP…….
m agree vid u arfan
dats da reality
dey reali jeouliuos
if you want to talk like that, thinking “m agree vid u” saves times, i hope you dont say “dat” when you speak.. and FYI, its “jealous” (you might want to write “jellus” to save time!! lol).. not “jeoulious”.. geez!
shame on u “ICAP”
hum log agr chahe to aik petition high court mein dair kar sktay hai agr ap log sath do to aik student federation bna mete hai for ACCA student
A very Coward Behaviour of ICAP . shame shame and The shame
Well, my view is that if someone is pursuing foreign qualification he/she must aim to move abroad. Or else pursue chartered accountancy to stay in Pakistan as it gives awareness to local law and regulation.
However, foreign qualification candidates should not be deprived of getting audit experience in Pakistan. Nevertheless, Industry is always open (as if we have many jobs
) to all the qualifications.
Cheers,
Bus kar de dost… Halka aja.. Saari english idhar bol dega to khattam hojaegi.. EnY k partner ne parh lea to le lega teri…
@Vishal
‘industry is always open’
halka aaja bhae.. ACCA ka Head tow nahi ban gaya kahin?? Aisi bakwas batain wohi kartay hain DAARU laga kar
O uncle!
daikh bhai ACCA and ICAEW ko tu koi rok sakta nh.
ICAP ke tu apni phatti pari ha. CASE ka samna krny sy ghabra raha ha. ICAP ka head notice issue kr k vacation pr bhaag gaya tha
hahah
dats ryte
yr
At last my call for the protest and my fellows participation caught an eye and we were granted back our careers “SAFE”.
Well then i would like to apologize on the behalf of all other ACCA students , the way they reacted to this notice is bit shameful . If we can’t defend our own body and just started commenting against it then what’s the point of doing of ACCA .
Secondly decision taken by ICAP was legit as any body can direct it members to protect their interest aswell as ICAP is a national body in Pakistan . But the decision was objectable on the basis of let firms decide who they want to hire them this will in turn make a healthy competition .
Minahil… Nothing to make an apology. Neither we had any furious intentions, nor we would have been their to injure anybody or his/her feelings. Only demand was to turn down the letter.
It was just a demand, a request.. It was not a strike, it was a protest !! We strongly prohibited the use of force. Refer back to my post on event on Facebook where i had called out the agenda and the proceedings of the protest where i asked the participants to be clear that :
1: They will not break any public property.
2: They will not harass anybody.
3: They will not block any road.
4: They will co-operate with police and authorities.
We were putting our grievances to ICAP collectively that’s called a protest !!
I AM NOT ASHAMED AS AN ACCA STUDENT !!
Well if that’s the case i am neither against the protest but don’t you think it was to early to call for a protest atleast we should have waited for the reply from ACCA Pakistan office but i guess that letter was enough for people as every second person in Pakistan thinks he/she is better ‘ MUNSIF ‘ then anyone else , like take the example of how people miss-interpreted the letter and just blaming it on everything on ACCA for not taking any action atleast give sometime to them to take some action or responed to that letter .
Exactly Hassan , We should not do anything to feel ashamed of it later . I am only saying it was to early to call for a protest that’s it .
Minahil, that was not early. I have reasons for that:
1: I was very much connected with my deep links in ICAP which explained that ICAP was to make things complex if the response to that had either been low or would have never existed.
2: This decision was also to check whether the community of Foreign accounting bodies react over this or not. and if they respond, what is their strategy.
3:Miss interpretations were though there, but it was need of the time.
4: Till monday noon, ACCA was on halt. and ICAP was as usual missing from the scene when it had already assured publicly that they would make an interpretation of the letter by monday which they didn’t.
5: ACCA UK took matter seriously by the eve of monday.
6: Under these circumstance we were compelled to launch the protest.
7: Thousands of emails, and our protest made evident to ICAP that they have to explain with clear interpretation. Which they did.
ACCA PAK didn’t played a role in this whole situation. The management of ACCA Pak brought more damages to ACCA community.
So our protest was essential and we will not be and will never be sorry. It was timely response. As all ways said that A STITCH IN TIME IS BETTER THAN NINE..
I guess you are currently doing ACCA and you have ‘deep links’ within ICAP!?!?…wow..batein ***** bht aati hain ACCA valon ko.
Hassan,
1) I agree with what you said in above lines. I am also of the opinion that it was the pressures created by ACCA students/affiliates which resulted in some explanation on this letter.
2) However, ACCA & ACCA (PAK) not responding on this matter, make scence, as they can’t challenge the actions taken by ICAP as ICAP is the self regulatory body. However as a regulatory body ICAP should protect the interest of all accountacy professional of the country as ICAP is regulatory body for all Accountants & not only Chartered Accountants qualified from ICAP.
3) I am very disappointed from the behavior/comments of ICAP members/students which clearly showed their grudge against ACCA/other foreign qualified professionals. The professional rivalry is good if it created positive competition but it showed issue of acceptance from ICAP members/students side. Had the ICAP members/students showed even a little support to ACCA affiliates/students on this matter then the whole mess could me avoided but unfortunately it did not happen.
4) Minahil, no need to say sorry. It was the pressure of ACCA affiliates/students which resulted in an explanation from whatever the sources. However their should be a clear guidlines from ICAP (in black & white) on this issue. If ICAP had no bad intentions then it’ll definitely issue a guidline/explanation on this matter.
Regards,
@Obaid
Beta tum KPMG k 4ft wali chotey say ganjay trainee ho na??Or apni okat main reh ker baat kero.Hassan k links kyun nahe ho skty?Meray auncle ICAP k board member reh chuky hain in 2011.
Ziada bakwaas ki na tumhri pic load ker deni hay yahan ganjay, mind your dirty ICAP language!!
@Minahil dont abuse ICAP k…
This is neither the matter of ethics nor the issue of any specific qualification like ACCA. All the audit firms of Pakistan need the audit practising licence from ICAP not from ACCA, CIMA or ICAEW so they have to follow the rules and regulations of ICAP. Around the globe every country regulates its accounting profession.
Is it possible for a British audit firm in UK to give articles to a student of ICAP? the answer is No
and same is the case in other countries. In India, legally no foreign accountancy body is allowed to work and keep my words, soon this will also happen in Pakistan through legislation…..
Unlce listen!
1. ICAEW is a king of CHARTERED ACCOUNTANT.
WO jo kry kr sakta ha.
2. BIG 4 all over the world ha.Srf
Pakisan ma nh. ICAP srf Pakistan ma ha. KCH SMJH aaye kahani uncle g.
i think he has gone
u r ryte king
CA MEMBERS ALWAYS JALEOUS FROM ACCA.
I DONT KNOW WHY.BUT ITS A REALITY.I KNOW VERY VERY REPUTED AND MUTURE PEOPLE SHOWING SUCH INTENTONS,anyway means to say “koi tay chand charna hi c na”
Minahil is CA members or doing CA. fu…..
the first thing we should focus is , our religion is also supporting us in this way that , go and get ur education even if u have to go to china or other place, mean here in Pakistan we cannot get better knowledge from other and keep on relying on local bull shits , ACCA is is the worlds most fast and updated organisation. This is completely insane that you are trying to save ur A_ _ by stopping others from learning. how miserable is this . ICAP should understand if they want to get more student then they should raise their level atleast to minimum level of ACCA or ICAEW or other international bodies ,they should know that ACCA also have learning stream for Pakistan mean they are not for a single country its an international body which currently representing this world of chartered accountancy all around the globe. they should understand why students prefer other qualifications.
Once again i’ll say proud to be an affiliate member of ACCA an I am a part of this world and representing it all over the world by being a student member , now affiliate member and Inshallah Full member in a year.
Take care Best of Luck for ICAP .
yea thtaz what i was expecting.
it was the first sight on notice i found is exactly what it came out at the end of the day.
guys show some professional ethics dont be foolish while discussing and putting allegation on each others’ bodies.
ACCA is something more than worth anything that can be expected so cheers and enjoy its diversified portfolio
@Tbajwa TOTALLY AGREED
The notice is aimed at ICAEW students and not ACCA students and it’s wise of ICAP to do so because we already don’t have many jobs for chartered accountants. I agree with Vishal that students who are pursuing a foreign qualification can move abroad to acquire their practical exprience.
Why should any one who is pursuing foreign qualification leave this country to acquire practical experience?
Do you think that every person who is pursuing a foreign qualification has the means to move abroad? And even if some or most have the means, does that mean they will get a visa and a job abroad. If our own country’s regulatory body can’t provide for its own people what makes you think, Non-Pakistani’s will do. ICAP is a regulatory body of PAKISTAN , that should be regulating the structure for the good of Pakistan not just looking out for a its own set of students.
Seriously, you want qualified, honest, hardworking students and members to leave just because they are seeking alternative qualifications? Do you have any idea of the ramifications of your views? At this stage, we as Pakistani’s are facing, you want those to leave, who can contribute positively to the economy of Pakistan.
Pakistan is for all Pakistani’s not just who pursue Pakistani qualifications.
By your logic all foreign qualified doctors, engineers, economists etc should all move abroad if their regulators refrain institutes from giving them training. Will create enough jobs for the remaining populace.
I urge you all to please look at the bigger picture. Do not isolate your own people. Please!
inn k notice issue karne se kiya hota ha
is counrty ki pehlie koi repute ha world me jo upper se aise kam karte ha ye log
aggar inn me itna dum ha to start kare aise project just like acca
icaew
I m a Student of ICAEW uk . if Icap wanna do these stupid things to save them . so no problem then ICAEW should ban Icap member , student to do a job not only in Uk but in collaboration with every single body and impose ban on them.
The thing is that Now ICAP monoply has been distorted by global professional bodies that why they r behaving like an imature bodies. look at ICMAP they are doing nothing. still they have a direct competetor CIMA . but they know if they provide better services then they r not gonna insecure anymore.
ICAP should not forget that its founder members are/were qualified from ICAEW or other foreign CA institutes & it was ICAP which granted honorary certificates to those guys.
This is neither the matter of ethics nor the issue of any specific qualification like ACCA. All the audit firms of Pakistan need the audit practising licence from ICAP not from ACCA, CIMA or ICAEW so they have to follow the rules and regulations of ICAP. Around the globe every country regulates its accounting profession.
Is it possible for a British audit firm in UK to give articles to a student of ICAP? the answer is No
and same is the case in other countries. In India, legally no foreign accountancy body is allowed to work and keep my words, soon this will also happen in Pakistan through legislation…
There is no such thing that students can not complete there ACCA qualification as ACCA experience requirement is just not restricted to audit firm and they accept industry experience as well.
The only thing matters it the quota of students which is currently occupied by audit firm will now move towards industry and this will be problem as many of them may remain unemployed/untrained.
Industry may also now occupy ACCAs as a good replacement of MBAs at low cost.
Ultimately the market of forthcoming ACCAs & MBA (fin) may badly hurt.
My mind got boggled first what a impractical decision it is but I have confirmed from many ICAP members , they excluded ACCA from this decision , its just for ICAEW so ACCA students don’t need to be panic …
if you see the tone of this statement ‘ “I don’t think ACCA office would comment on this notice. In fact – I think the intelligent response for them is to stay low on this. For one thing, this was not a public notice and was communicated to practicing firms not to ACCA so there’s no point for them to respond. It would rather be foolish. And second its not ACCA’s policy to intervene with local regulating body of accountancy profession in countries where they are operating”, he said. ‘ you can clearly see the who is the target,i think the notice was for both ACCA and ICAWE because we know very well about ICAPs behaviour for ACCA its not new well ACCA and ICAWE can kick ICAPs ass if they want to … ICAP can only dominate in pakitan but not outside pakistan,ACCA & ICAWE can influence globe to ban ICAPs students. ICAP=ICRAP
hey can any body plx send me link protest which is going to held at islamabad
http://www.facebook.com/events/343115205767632/
Salam, So MoU of ICAP with ICAEW get void at Clause # 2?
hahahaha ICAP waisay foreign educations ko compete nhi kr skta thats WHY try to eliminate.foreign education out of the country.
Well still if we assume that the real target was ICAEW even they the question is “why”? Why do ICAP want to refrain ICAEW students from getting articles in Pakistani firms if they are offering exemptions to foreign qualifications?
its simple, ICAP should not then give exemptions to ACCA or ICAEW, and if they does then they should not issue such pathetic notices.
@ Minahil: Seriously??? i dont want to use any harsh word but you dont have any right to apologize on behalf of all ACCA students/members. you are correct ICAP has the right to ask there members to act in the benefit of ICAP but then ICAP itself has to do the same, why are they still giving exemptions to ACCA and ICAEW? they should cancel all the exemptions first and then they should issue such notices.
Shut down ICAP and PCB…
what’s going on yaaar !!!!!!!!!!!!!
whatever the decision is should be known to every one in clear words. otherwise it would create lots of panic !!
ICAP should know that , their member need an internationally accepted qualification to work abroad thats why most of their member do ACCA to work abroad because being a member of only ICAP , these CA from ICAP are not acceptable around the world ,
This is only reason why ICAP , ICAP member and Their students are speaking so much against ACCA or other Internationally accepted qualifications. they should understand they are also seeking help from those bodies to work abroad.
if they are stopping others from getting training. then they should force ICAP members to work only in Pakistan…………. Think Again
Immature and unprofessional response from most of the ACCA students.
one must try to understand that most of the ACCA students gets training contracts as CA students (as if they want to do CA(Pakistan)) only IWAEW students have different training contracts. This letter was clearly for them.
simply irresponsible behaviour on the part of ACCA students.
I think you have not read the letter carefully , its for any foreign body ,
and as per u ACCA’s are getting articles by registering as ICAP student or as CA contract. then my dear tell my dear what have u just wrote. mean no direct registration for ACCA also .
I think most of ICAP student and Members also have little interpretation skills thats why now they are trying to save their faces after what they have done…… think again
I am also an ACCA student, but Mr. Bajwa can u please highlight the name of any single country in the world in which Pakistani CA student can get training contract for CA (Pakistan).
A real job experience is batter than an audit firm expereience (if one is not planning a carrer in Audit. Moreover an ACCA student can get the training in Audit Firm while registring himself as CA student. whats the problem? Is this not acceptable to ACCA UK?
Agression is not always the best policy
Faizan U r right , but point is, here they are saying that its for any foreign body then what about the MoU they have signed with ICAEW. mean making such restriction u r also violating the MoU.
ACCA accept ur experience from any company where ur work is related to finance and audit.
I think when ACCA can get article in Dubai , Singapore etc then why not here in Pakistan .
one thing i should say , Closure of One door mean Opening of another door with better Opportunity.
Dear Mr. Bajwa
You didnot answer any single question.
being an ACCA student we can easily get Traing contract by registring ourselves as CA students. So whats the point of showing so much aggression.
that MOU does not relatred to ACCA. why we should bother about it?
ACCA Pakistan is silent on this notice because they knew that its not an issue.
my only request to all students and members is that; being a memebr of such a prestigious professional body we must show some professionalism and ethics to other professionals.
some of the students even ready to abuse Minahil who just raised her concerns over the aggression of the ACCA students and said sorry on behalf of ACCA students.
is this the professionalism or ethics we ACCA students are proud of?
Dear Faizan
Abusing Someone is not a good Practice.
u said its not for ACCA , an I have not yet answered ur question , So Kindly Translate it for me ,
” No Training contract for any Foreign Body Student”
+ i wanna add here “as” a foreign body student.
Abusing is not a professional way to communicate.
I think We should wait till ACCA make any Official statement
two questions
can u please highlight the name of any single country in the world in which Pakistani CA student can get training contract for CA (Pakistan)?
an ACCA student can get the training in Audit Firm while registring himself as CA student. whats the problem? Is this not acceptable to ACCA UK? (if this is acceptable then why we are making big noise?)
I support ICAP and think that this step should have been taken earlier. Being a student acquiring a Pakistani qualification in Accountancy, it was very hard for me to make my position in Audit Firms specially in the Big 4s. This made me think that why I chose Pakistani CA, where I have to go through more than 20 papers, as compared to ACCA having only 14 papers in total including preference in Pakistani Audit Firms over the ICAP students.
As a CA student, I don’t totally agree with this decision, since ACCA should not be considered a third class qualification and treated as alien degree. ACCA students should not worry as they can complete their articles while doing any job in the industry.
Cursing ICAP just won’t do.
On behalf of whole Chartered Accountants community in Pakistan, I want to appreciate for taking such a remarkable step to preserve our professional image in the market.
This remarkable step will definitely enhance the morale of CA students and will also create more career opportunities in future.
Majority of you would like to know the real difference between CA and ACCA Syallabus. The real problem with CA students is that they think they have the toughest syallabus in the world. Well… Lets find it out if it is really that technical as compared to ACCA syallabus. Next time any CA guy tells you that they study the most difficult syallabus and thats why they have the right to be given preference in Audit firms then just throw the following links to him
One of the most interesting topic and thread found so far pointing out the differences/ similarities between CA and ACCA Syallbus. Though it will take time , but do visit the following links once free…
Episode # 1: CA Module ‘E’ E-17 “Business Management” Vs ACCA ‘Professional Level’ P-3 “Business Analysis”.
http://www.accountancy.com.pk/forum/topic.asp?topic_id=6144
CA Module ‘F’ F-21 “Advanced Auditing” Vs ACCA ‘Professional Level’ P-7 “Advanced Audit & Assurance”.
http://www.accountancy.com.pk/forum/topic.asp?topic_id=6145
CA Module ‘F’ F-18 “Management Accounting” Vs ACCA ‘Professional Level’ P-5 “Advanced Performance Management”.
http://www.accountancy.com.pk/forum/topic.asp?topic_id=6146
CA Module ‘F’ F-19 “Business Finance Decisions” Vs ACCA ‘Professional Level’ P-4 “Advanced Financial Management”
http://www.accountancy.com.pk/forum/topic.asp?topic_id=6147
Credit goes to Muhammad Amir
icap overproud CAs this is a real cracker for you…here is an indepth analysis of CA study/syllabus vs ACCA syllabus…if u still boast that CA SYLLABUS IS HELL OF DIFFICULT and TOUGHEST IN THE WORLD and Only the BRILLIANT OF PEOPLE ARE ONES GETTING THROUGH ALL EXAMS….then u guys have really gone nuts….U R REALLY A VICTIM OF ICAP BRAINWASHING>>>now have patience and view these comparisons…
Can you also compare the passing ratio of;
CA based people passing ACCA
with
ACCA based people qualifying CA?
I am sure the former percentage would be much higher than the latter one..
Jawab hai k kyon? qualified hoke tou tum log ICEAW main bhe attempts lagate ho.. q bhai?
Course content se kuch nahi hota.. wo tou sare CA bodies ka almost same he hoga! Ghadon wala comparision tha ye sorry to say..
The reason for more failures in ICAP is the strict passing criteria + integration of other CA subjects in most papers..
ek baat or.. agar ACCAs itne he qabil hote hain tou ye ICEAW se 5 years pecchey q hote hain? ICEAW ko tou foran sari exemptions hata k ICEAW=ACCA kar dena chahiye nahi?
jis se poocho kehta hai ACCA is a ‘cheap’ replacement of CA or MBA-Finance.. Itnay qabil ho tou cheap q ho bhai? rate barabar kar k baat kar..AGAR rate mile tou
market main ye hamesha peechay he raha hai ICEAW ICAP or even indian CAs se 
audit kar k apne ap ko barabar ka samjhte ho, standard khol k ISA ya IFRS parhwalo tou chakkar ajaye inhen
tou bhai mere kis grounds pe apneap ko turram khan samjhte ho ye bata do bas?
Kitnay Darwazay band karo gay?? hur darwazay sy ACCA niklay ga….
we ACCA should proud of this that ICAP ppl are jealous with our professional qualification and felling unsecure due to our capability, motivation, knowledge and with the professional attitude.
We can simply see who professional’s are they, by writing letter and another day they said this is not for ACCA’s.
ICAP ppl please try to incorporate some professional attitude.
Cheerx ACCA’s
I will strongly suggest that ACCA/CIMA/ICAEW togather with SKANS / CAMS and all other stakeholder should do political lobbing to remove ICAP’s monopoly on accounting profession in Pakistan. These so called CA’s of ICAP just want that after them, pens should be thrown away and books should be burnt out and nobody become CA or got equal qualification in this country. This is the good time for lobbing as money can do anything within this governement. Even one phone call from UK can do ANYTHING. I hope you guys will understand what I mean!
Well… I think that analysis is not right as they have clearly missed out what ACCA & ICAEW has done with ICAP members before the issuance of that notice.
Have any of you guys checked out what exemptions are currently available to ICAP member from ACCA & ICAEW member bodies. And, what is recent change in these exemptions from these two REPUTABLE INSTITUTIONS before condemning ICAP.
And, I am sorry to say that this analysis is creating rage among BLIND PROFESSIONAL/ STUDENTS, who are have only ears & not the eyes to check/ confirm/ investigate the issue.
Appreciate that the analysis be written & comments should be made after looking in issues at gross root level.
Hammad Jawad khan , before presenting your comparision of CA & ACCA papers u should know, the ACCA papers u are referring are the optional ones only P3 is compulsory whereas all the CA papers u r referring are compulsory , so please think first and then potrait your allegations.
Hy , its compulsory for u to choose two from four to specialize in 2 fields after taking compulsory papers .
now guy stop putting points on each others bcz we all are crops of same field mean accountancy , we all should be united rather making point on each other.
Not a problem for ACCA Students at all. As ACCA trainees are not doing contract job, there is no need for it either.
well, more than half of icap students opt for acca too after they get registered in the firms. The result is a CA and ACCA qualified guy. Not to forget the reason behind it, a CA trainee clears ACCA papers with much more ease than a normal ACCA kid does. So at the end of the day an ICAP student will now get degree from ICAP and ACCA both as they can register as audit trainees, whereas kid doing only ACCA will get screwed bad…Because ICAP students also form a part of ACCAs in Pakistan, and they SUPPORT this move of ICAP..
Well, I did ACCA in First attempt. I have Studied ACA Books Thoroughly, I did not find much difference. I find ACA much easier than ACCA, the problems for ACA students (for not passing there exams) are Non independence of ICAP, as well as ACA paper checking persons,Quota system in pass rate and busy schedule of trainees in firms.
And now I come to the topic, Such notice has no affect on ACCA. thats not a move from ICAP, Its just a reminder.
The Sec 22 of CA Ordinance 1961* (X of 1961)states that;
“Penalty for using name of the Council, awarding degree of chartered accountancy, etc.- (1)
No person shall-
(i) use a name or a common seal which is identical with the name or the common seal of the
Institute or so nearly resembles it as to deceive or as is likely to deceive the public;
(ii) award any degree, diploma or certificate or bestow any designation which indicates or
purports to indicate the possession or attainment of any qualification or competence
possessed by a person by virtue of his being a member of the Institute; or
(iii) seek to regulate in any manner whatsoever the profession of chartered accountants.
(2) Any person contravening the provisions of sub-section (1) shall, without prejudice to any
other proceedings which may be taken against him, be punishable with fine which may
extend on first conviction to one thousand rupees, and on any subsequent conviction with
imprisonment which may extend to six months, or with fine which may extend to five
thousand rupees, or with both.
the notice ICAP supplied is just a reminder, and doesn’t contained any extra info. (where as they might try to present the info in such a manner that it shld b interpreted wrongly, as so far, if any mentor who by himself has assumed that this is to mention ACCA or ICAEW or any other body which is legally working or not deceiving public, is not addressed in it, this for me is like providing an info to firms not to hire people with such bogus and decisive in nature.)
Its not mentioned in the Ordinance which the ICAP has mentioned (Foreign Institutes of chartered accountants) so it looks like that they tried to add something in it to eliminate the competitors out who bothered them alot.
if anybody has interpreted it wrongly or try to present it in such a manner that it benefits only specific group of people (which I m sorry to say is actually happened) they can be trailed. but the question is By whom???
As far as I’m concerned ACCA can’t react to it and will not even because its doesn’t come under their jurisdiction.
I want to know if there is any other possible way(fully legal) we can access and try not to let the people influence on our future.
I condemn ICAP such action that bother Education a lot an request the ministory of Education and the people with authority to resolve the matter, Education is the right of every person as per what he desired and not what enforced by others…
Well I Can say as per my knowledge and understanding
that ICAP notice is not subjected to ACCA.
I have contacted one of the directors of big 4 and as per our discussion it can be assumed that ACCA is not banned in Pakistan and very soon ICAP will be releasing an ICAP explanation on this issue.
For ACCA Students advise to first get membership of ACCA than take exemption for CA.than ICAP will accept ACCA trainee student in audit firm
i will say lets relax it would be over in 6 months
ICAEW have to capture the pakistan market
so may be a letter from ifac to icap would do the job or allowing ACCA articles eqilvalent and acceptable for ICAEW
it s a big game
and one thing we r bounded by ethics so i oppose any strike since it is against our integrity
and let me add more there is news may be ACCA exemptions would be open again so lets wait and watch
Rather than banning foreign accountancy qualification from the pakistan, ICAP should improve its standard. ICAP student always complains of their accountancy body. No criteria , no course outline confusion all around. ICAP is institute of confusion of pakistan.
Now current notice and the surrounding confusion, none of the ICAP official came forth to clarify the notice.
Being a member of IFAC , ICAP has no right to defame the other ifac member bodies and accountancy profession at large. I think IFAC should take some strict action on the biaseness of the ICAP towards other accountacy bodies who study same accounting/Audit standards. Also the other Accountacy bodies should revise their relationship with the ICAP. First they ban ACCA from the big 4 firms now they are aiming at banning them altogether.
Now Pakistani market starts to recognize ACCA with corporations mentioning ACCA side by side with CA and interestingly the Govt jobs also start demanding ACCA. And this is real Spice. See how far it goes.. Happy to know the current notice. You don’t win by solely your competence and skills but many times by the stupidity of the Rival..
@Hammida
I think ICAP students are mostly “Kuay ka Mandak” and they do not know the international recognition of ACCA. Therefore Hammida go and check the rate of ACCA then ICAP in international market. Rate pakistan may bat kr nahi bantay meray Papu … Bahir ke market check kr pr bat karee ACCA ke …
please suggesst me acca or ca
CIMA
I suggest u leave this country n seek a better future
……………….
bhar mai jaye ICAP
Salam everyone…any updates?
Kindly tell me then y every firm is claiming that we cant hire ACCA as its against ICAP and secondly y audit firms are not announcing induction prog for ACCAS in this session.
Janiiiiiiiiii agar ACCA walon ko firms ne uthana band kar diya to pakistaniiiiiii companies kee audit kon karega, Firms ke pass itne employees bbbbbbb to hone chahye na
You Pakistani students are funny -
If you are all meant to become “Accountants” where is your strategic thinking?
[...] industry experts are divided into their opinion with some saying that this notice was not intended for ACCA students, but for ICAEW. ACCA students are reporting on social media and through their emails to [...]
I think by saying that it was meant for ICAEW not ACCA are totally incorrect .ACCA are very huge in number then ICAEW and major risk for others in this rigid competition. It’s important to acknowledge that acca students are victim of this notice. I hope the issue will be resolved soon and acca will be in BIG four again. Thanks
I feel that ACCA institutes alonng with there farangi bap have launched a very bogus propogenda against agood decision made by ICAP for the benefit of CA students. these britishers themselves in there country have made such laws that favour there countrymen for eg in britain people who are given priority to jobs are first british nationals then other europeans then a particular class of commonwealth countries and then comes the turn of pakistanis and in pakistan they are stealing the right of local CA students and thats why tere are various students who have cleared module D and still dont get induction in firms because after taking the cream CA firms give prority to students of ACCA because they are cheaper
hey! Plz yar koi tu batao k me acca,cima & ca me se kia karo? B quick,…..?
at the present time … CA Pakistan seems the best option
If there is no future of ACCA in Pakistan, there should be no further intake of students into ACCA pakistan. The ACCA tuition providers in pakistan should stop making money by fooling kids. the views of Mr. Adnan Rashid are clearly Biased. From the inside the tuition providers are all awair of the reality. That is why institutes like SKANS, CFE, RISE etc are diversifying into providing tuition for other accountancy degrees like b.com, mba etc.
if big 4 will not accept ACCA students in pakistan so what can they do next? and is it possible for Pakistani students to have articles abroad like UK or dubai?
assalam alaekum bhai jan kia ap log bata sakty hain k itni larai kyn karrahy ACCA OR CA waly kia acca ka koi rights nahi hain pakistan mai kia hmm acca karrahy hain to pakistani hone haq chin lengay hm se ye icap waly
There is no comparison of ICAP’s CA qualification with any foreign finance degree or qualification. Our ICAP qualified Chartered Accountants are demanded internationally. The news was spread and it was giving an impression that ICAP is not confident enough on their own professional qualification of CA or the management of ICAP are unnecessarily in fear that they may loose the ground? If this news was incorrect then a small ad notice explaining the same was required. Why the action of the explanation was not taken by ICAP?
I heard ICAP has lost the case and articals are open for both ACCA and ACA. Is this news is correct ?
Not correct at the moment. I’m getting more information on this issu. For Articles to be open for ACCA and ICAEW students – ICAP need to issue another directive nullifying the previous one.
I will update another article soon on this