Lock Down: ICAP President in an Exclusive Conversation with EconomyAge
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One thing that every small, medium and large size company need — is a good Chartered Accountant. While writing this, I remind myself of an interesting tweet: “Where there is will, there is a chartered accountant”.
"ICAP is devising a mechanism for those who can be good at other disciplines would be able to take exit with a respectable mid-tier certification", said ICAP President Rashid Rahman
But I think we can safely substitute the word ‘will’ with ‘company’. It doesn’t matter where you’re working. Be it pharma, banking, investment and for that matter even entertainment industry, everyone needs an Accountant.
And in order to serve this purpose in Pakistan, where else to look for other than Institute of Chartered Accountants of Pakistan, also famously known for its acronym, ICAP.
The Institute of Chartered Accountants of Pakistan which was originally established under The Chartered Accountants Ordinance, 1961 as a self regulatory body, is also an examining body for the candidates aspiring to become Chartered Accountants. It regulates the accounting and auditing profession in Pakistan, which includes Standard setting, Quality Control and Investigation.
ICAP also contributes in promoting corporate governance, formulating economic policies of Federal and Provincial Governments including federal budget making with specific focus on taxation.
I know what you did THIS Summer
Recently, after ICAP successfully land an agreement with Canadian Institute of Chartered Accountants, which many believes will help in improving Pakistan’s image in international market and with Sindh govt which will provide paid training programme to those who cannot afford – it was evident that now ICAP is on right track for its own members and society.
But all is not gold. ICAP has also been criticized on social networks sometimes for its policies and its attitude towards them.
So we decided to grab ICAP New President, Rashid Rahman Mir, member of three professional bodies ICAP, ICMAP and PIPFA – to congratulate him and to confront him on all these issues.
Mr. Mir is a Founder Partner of Rahman Sarfaraz Rahim Iqbal Rafiq, Chartered Accountants (RSRIR). He was member council since 2005, in his first term 2005- 2009, he served as Vice President for the year 2008- 2009. And he got re-elected for the second term 2009-2013 and became the President of ICAP for the year 2011-2012.
At least, there was a Will
Pakistan, which has been facing ‘image issues’ from entertainment, cricket, politics and finance, might find this ICAP-CICA deal as a positive sign for our human resource image internationally. And of course, we congratulate Mr Mir on this successful endeavor with Canadian Chartered Accountants’ body.
I asked him about this agreement and what goes behind this deal and the efforts and time they put behind it?
“The salient features of the MOU are (a) the ICAP members are now required to appear in only one exam of CICA, that is Uniform Evaluation and (b) their practical training in Pakistan and their post qualification experience is acceptable to CICA subject to individual assessment”, said Mir.
“In other words, the process of CICA membership for ICAP members which earlier required around one and half year period has been reduced to six months. The Institute initiated the discussion of mutual recognition in March, 2010 and as per the scheduled plan of detailed evaluation it concluded in March 2012″.
Good for Pakistani accountants and I’m sure there are many ICAP members who will avail this option but do you think there will be Canadian accountants who will be coming to Pakistan? Given the security and perception problem with our country?, I asked him.
“See, Looking at the potential of emerging markets, like Pakistan, the flow of capital is bound to divert from conventional advanced economies”, said Mir.
“But as soon as situation of law and order starts to improve in Pakistan, it is likely that there will be a number of joint ventures where CICA members may find an opportunity. However, the numbers would not be much significant in foreseeable future”, he added.
Pakistan is not what you see on Fox News
The bias attitude of few international media outlets is evident in our case and its getting hard for most of our professionals and businesses to convince foreigners and companies otherwise. So I asked Mr Mir how did he convince a Canadian body for such an agreement when foreign investors and even cricket teams are reluctant to visit Pakistan?
“As I mentioned earlier the international employer market is fully aware of the expertise and value of the ICAP members. ICAP’s education is fully compliant with the requirements of the International Education Standards issued by ‘International Federation of Accountants (IFAC) therefore, the formalization of the recognition was not that difficult”, said Mir.
“In addition to that there is another dimension of the situation — Pakistan is one of very few countries where international pronouncements on accounting and auditing are applied as national standards. With the recent drive of convergence to international standards by countries like Canada, USA, UK and many other advanced countries, the expertise in international standards has become more valuable. May be this aspect has also played its role”.
I also know what you did LAST Summer
With so many comments and emails, I could not resist but to ask if on one hand ICAP has been very open and friendly with other international bodies but making it hard for those already working in Pakistan.
“It is believed that ICAP, in last few years, corner ACCA, a British Accountancy qualification, through its policies and its becoming hard for their students and affiliates to get a job, especially in audit firm? How would you respond to these perceptions?”, I asked Mir.
“The perception doesn’t seems to be correct because major employers of ACCA are CA practicing firms and members of ICAP serving in industry who hire students or qualified persons on the basis of their business model and we respect their independent decisions. You would however agree that due to the state of economy we have the employment opportunities are shrinking for almost everyone”, responded ICAP President.
Suicides among CA Students
There were some sad incidents within accountancy circles when one CA student from Rawalpindi reportedly killed his parents and another student of ICAP working in BRS department in EnY in Karachi committed suicide.
So I asked ICAP President, Mr Mir, if there specific problems with the ICAP examination systems and policies since many commentators put the blame on ICAP’s policies and even go to the length to blame audit firms that they treat trainee students merely as animals of work without any regard to their professional studies and career?
“We should be aware of the fact that the Institute has 50 years history and at present around 30,000 students are appearing in examinations of ICAP”. said Mir.
“CA Qualification is one of the most prestigious professionals. And when we talk about these sad events it is not appropriate to make judgement for the entire community on the basis of an inappropriate act of an individual. ICAP examinations have always been challenging and they will remain so, as ICAP members are entrusted with great responsibility by the society”, added Mir.
“They are supposed to serve the public interest where any lack of competence can affect seriously to large number of stakeholders and our community at large. We have increased the student counselling for providing more guidance to the students and are devising a mechanism which would enable good students to pass the examinations and for those who can be good at other disciplines would be able to take exit with a respectable mid-tier certification”, Mr Mir discloses.
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Sir ICAP should compensate for the loss of family who’s son committed suicide. I hope you will do something in this regard.
# Accounting in Canada is provincially regulated.it means that the mou with ca institute of canada is basicaly with institute of bermuda(a province of canada).a charterd accountant from bermuda can practice accountancy in bermuda not in ontario or calgary.etc
The perception about the ACCA is obviously correct that they have been cornered,,,they have to spend extra 18 months to reach their level which they had intitally planned… this issue must be considered as it is very demoarlizing for the students who had starated ACCA by keeping CA in their mind…. realistic steps should be taken in this regard…
I believe what ICAP has done to make amendments by cancelling exemptions for ACCA students is only JUSTICE with CA students! ICAP and NOT ACCA is Pakistani body and empowering ACCA in Pakistan means no room for CA students!! And those who endorse and contest in favor of the ICAP exemptions for ACCA students must first ensure that CA students get somehow the same exemptions/ privileges from ACCA also!
i think the appropriate solution has to come from both side .Rather than at daggers end,ACCA and ICAP should objectively learn to respect each other and come up with a reciprocal degree exchange program…like signing an MOU…giving exemptios to each others students and memebers…
Realistic steps? ACCA f*** up the whole market by throwing their dirt and they start calling themselves ‘Chartered Accountants’
I can bet if 50% of them even know the history of ACCA. This bloody british qualification robs poor Pakistani students.
And congratulations to Sir Rashid Rahman. Long Live Pakistan. Long Ligve ICAP
Tehseen Ali what are you talking about ??
I am doing CA and i totally disagree with whatever nonsense you said . ICAP (CA) should not put a hold or restrict its qualification within limited boundaries or should be seen in isolation of any other accountancy degree/profession. Levels and criteria should always be put in place in order to assess exemptions and waiver of courses one should get coming from same profession/field.
Other point is CA or ACCA or CPA etc there are some basic things one should know ; that whenever you step into new market you need to build up the resources required and excel on it later on but for that at the first stage there are some expertise common to all ??
I hope you got my word -
bhai yehi to fark hay ICAPians keep learning the worn out syllabi …ACCA exam and syllabus standards are pinnacles in professional examinations..do you even know that each acca exam paper is written by an examiner and reviewd by a panel of 241 experts…I know mind boggling for an ICAP student..aisay hi to nai na ICAP copy paste mar raha ACCA exam structure ko…
What nonsense. Keep your language and bias within acceptable limits.
haha…biggest joke…ICAP’s FCA’s are mafia…their discriminatory policies towards ACCA are quite evident..this include removing the exemptions…firms face resistance from ICAP if they offer articles to ACCA because they operate on lisence from icap…even there are cases where students of acca have been fired from one of the top ten firms in ibd just bcoz on pressure of icap…GOD Damn u ICAP…
bhae jaan aapas ki baat hey, ACCA guys don’t even know how to make a decent CV.
Why would someone have to put pressure to throw them out? hahahahahha. They are ‘fired’ before they are hired hahahaha
HAHA…ACCAs are proven be better than CAs in soft skills bolay to CV writing waghaira..agar yakeen nai ata to AFF k partner Kaleem Ghauri ki ACCA k aik Talent seminar mein talk sun lo last year jo hua tha..bhai waisay apas ki baat hay AFF are the worst discriminators against ACCA lekin wo b ACCA ki soft skills ko recognize krtay hain…apas ki baat hay btana na kisi ko
Guys plz be neutral while commenting… khud k views mein persnal biasness na laen…
I did ACCA and currently student of CA and working in a firm …. The attributes from which we blame the whole community should not be considered to be present in all… ye CV writtng ya knowlege , paper pattern etc etc… everyperson has his/her own capabilities and competencies so plz be logical while commenting whether what u r typing…
Mr Tehseen,
Its not the Acca its about the individuals who are not able to make right CV’s , but Please tell me if in CA;s studies they teach you to make the Resume? I believe anser is “NO”
So please be positive there are only few ACCA’s those might not have that level but what about the Numbers of Others ACCA’s who are doing Termendous job in Job market , Please be professional while writing Comments about any accounting body its not CA or ACCA its individuals which metter alot the Accounting standard,Audit Standards ant other knowlege is almost same .
So please dont pass like this comments……..
Does ICAP have a duty to construct ‘Economic System of Islam’-Jinnah(r.a) 1.7.1948?What should be done?
A warning available in the BOOK.
It is obvious that ICAP is following a discriminatory policy toward ACCA students. How can ICAP forgets students that are doing ACCA are Pakistani nationals, creating difference ,as we all are already in from matriculation level, where you get differentiated with Cambridge system, demotivate students toward their future goals and expectations.I would say at professional level ACCA students facing the same differentiation as they have faced before. My respectful message to ICAP is don’t play with the futures of students. ICAP is well aware that ACCA qualification requires
hard work and commitment just like CA qualification. but if at the end of the day whether CA or ACCA students ignored it would be disastrous not for just one Accountancy body but for whole Accountancy Bodies in world because if you dont value Accountants it would create disastrous image of accountants as a profession.
“We have increased the student counselling for providing more guidance to the students and are devising a mechanism which would enable good students to pass the examinations and for those who can be good at other disciplines would be able to take exit with a respectable mid-tier certification”
SIR PLEASE TELL MORE ABOUT MID-TIER CERTIFICATION?
May be ICAP really needs to look at how and why reciprocal memberships and exemptions are extended in the first place. Exemptions and/or reciprocal memberships are granted on the basis of skills, concepts and knowledge taught by each of the body. They acknowledge each other’s members by allowing exemptions in courses where similarities exists to significant extent. This is an approach adopted by ‘various’ universities, professional bodies, business schools across the globe.
I have gone through both ICAP’s as well as ACCA’s syllabi and also the exemption, ‘an’ ACCA is allowed by ICAP. If this isn’t outright ‘discrimination’, I don’t know what it is. I would advise anyone who thinks otherwise to go through the exemptions allowed to an ‘ACCA’ Affiliate by ICAP and the actual course outline of ACCA. I don’t consider this attitude of ICAP as professional let alone fair representation of upper echelon of Pakitan’s premier auditing body.
If this is the regulatory body’s attitude, you can just ‘guess’ the situation in firms and the industry.
With respect to ‘who’ is better? I really don’t think there isn’t any one answer. I’ve seen CAs whose moral compass dictates playing FIFA on their office computers whole day, study when their bored and occasionally work when they feel like it and that too of ‘below average standard’ on month ends, quarter ends or year end. I’ve seen ACCA who don’t know how to look presentable in an interview let alone answer some basic questions about IFRS and IAS. In my opinion, none of them have a better success rate in producing better professionals than the other.
Please. Don’t make this news post about ACCA vs. ICAP.
Recently, I mailed to ICAP regarding student failure in MOD D’s Audit paper and sadly got no response from the body regarding my query. I don’t think this is the way an examination body is handling its student problems.
U expected a reply? ACCA responds to even small inquiries about papers, exam dates etx which are publicly available even.
If you are well equiped in terms of Knowledge, skills and practical application in your profession. You’l be good enough to beat anybody. This does’t relate what you have done in your academics, whether CA or ACCA. But those who quit CA and have done ACCA knows very right that ICAP’s monopoly has been adversely distorted by ACCA which is a good sign for Pakistan’s education system in a macro view.
The real issue is not ICAP but the Audit firms who really don’t even bother to give respect or ownership to their trainees but treat them as child labours unfortunately. And this is simply commercial aspect and nothing educational.
Workaround to STUPID policy for ACCA’s is to start MBA – Finance with ACCA and stay in firms
unka baap bhi kuch nahi kar sakta phr… and qualify ACCA with MBA staying in firm… aisi ki taisi tumhari policy ki ICAP…
Once ur done with ACCA with firm’s experience, obv top companies will prefer you
(this applies, only if u wish to stay in Pakistan) 
Even cheaper way out to break the jail of this policy, suggested by a CA friend, wont take name, might hurt professionally, is to opt PIPFA exemptions for Rs.1700
and again stay in CA firm hahaha baj gai policy ki
In this article President of ICAP seems like he is encouraging the global convergence but how can they do that with only getting allignment with CICA & banning/discourging the GLOBALLY RECOGNISED prestigious bodies such as ICAEW, ACCA & CIMA, Is it not a big contradiction in what he is saying and what actually doing?????
No Big Deal!! Get into Industry directly, leave Firm. Firms in Pakistan treats trainees as Child Labour, so let this option for those who accepts slavery job.
I was extremely stressed-out and disappointed after hearing the news. People have always been criticizing ICAP for being discriminative, however I always defended ICAP views hence ICAP has to promote accountancy profession in Pakistan as intended.
But this time I think ICAP has gone too far. They have axed and harmed a field for Foreign Qualifications in Pakistan. Totally closing a door to foreign qualifications. Extremely Shocked and lot of regrets. What would students like me do who are part way through ACCA or ICAEW?. We cannot leave ACCA or ICAEW because we have invested time and efforts in it and how come we give up?
It’s useless to cry over a spilt milk.
FEW QUESTIONS FOR ICAP and PAKISTANI GOVERNMENT.
Don’t you think we have a GREEN PAKISTANI PASSPORT?
Are we ACCAs not PAKISTANI CITIZEN?
Why I am not allowed to work in Audit firms?
Is this not discrimination (same as BLACK VS WHITE) based on origin of qualification?
We are not asking you for rights for Practicing.
May Allah give us patience and energy to face and overcome this problem.
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